Interview de Maître Tian Cheng
Yang, f¨¦vrier 2002.
Programme sp¨¦cial par la BTV
"Religions diff¨¦rentes et les croyances sur la mort."
Fourni aimablement par me Maître pour cette page web.
Quel est votre nom?
Maître Tian: Je suis Su Chun
Cheng Yang Tian est mon nom Taoïste.
de quelle partie de la Chine ?
M.T.: De la province du Shang
Dong; la m¨ºme que Confucius.
Quelle est votre religion ?
M.T.: Le Taoïsme.
Quelle est votre charge dans cette communaut¨¦ ?
M.T.: Dans le Taoîsme on appelle
Yuan, ce qui est similaire ¨¤ un abb¨¦ dans le Christianisme. Jian
signifie Sup¨¦rieur et Yuan
c'est le Temple
Quels sont les principes fondamentaux de votre religion ?
M.T.: Le Taoïsme consid¨¨re deux
aspects importants. Le premier c'est la vie et l'autre c'est la
Pensez-vous que de parler de la mort est un sujet tabou ?
M.T.: Dans le Taoïsme parler de
la mort n'est pas tabou, mais parler de la mort la nuit ça l'est; c'est
mieux de ne pas en parler la nuit.
Pourquoi cela ?
M.T.: Parce que la mort fait
partie du Yin et que ce n'est pas bon pour les vivants. Ll'¨¦nergie de
la vie a deux parties, l'¨¦nergie du Yin et celle d Yang. Pour les gens,
le Yang c'est mieux. La nuit, l'¨¦nergie appartient au Yin. Quand nous
parlons de la mort, on prend de l'¨¦nergie Yin, ce qui n'est pas bon
pour les gens qui sont vivants.
Qu'est-ce que le Yin et le Yang?
M.T.: Le Yin et le Yang, sont
les deux côt¨¦s qui repr¨¦sentent beaucoup de choses dans la culture
taoïste. Par exemple, le jour est Yang et la nuit est Yin. Le soleil
est Yang, la lune est Yin. l'homme est Yang, la femme es Yin. La vie est Yang, la mort est Yin, mais pour les ¨ºtres
vivants, plus de Yang et moins de Yin c'est mieux. Quand l'¨¦nergie Yang
est ¨¦puis¨¦e, c'est la mort.
Vous avez dit que dans le
Taoïsme, la Vie et la pratique sont les plus importants ?
BTV: La pratique consiste
en . .
M.T.: Taoist praxis is used for
this life. Because for a person alive, the most important thing it is
this life. Through the praxis, life can be perfected and prolonged to
be able to enjoy it and to extend it in order to arrive at a higher
BTV: When you speak of a higher
level, what are you talking about?
M.T.: With a higher level--with
the praxis, the great event of life and death can be solved. For
example, with the praxis it is possible to unite what in Taoism is
called the Three Treasures, those are of most importance for people.
One is the essence of the body; another one is the spirit, and another
one is Chi (in the West is like energy). These three things, with the
Taoist praxis can be united within the body. This in Taoism is called
With the praxis, we can unite
the Three Treasures within the body, and soon with the Inner Alchemy is
possible to raise it and to exit it over the head. That is the spirit
of the person. Through the praxis, the spirit can spread throughout the
universe. That is the highest level. When we reach this level we no
longer have the problem of life and death. For that reason it is always
possible to live as much as the Tao on the universe.
BTV: For your religion, what is
M.T.: In Taoism we do not fear
death. The book of Chuang Tse says, "Life and death are like day and
night." Is a natural thing; in Taoism we say, "Death and life have the
same root, like twins." For that reason when we have life, death
exists. When a person is born has life, the path is from life to death,
but in Taoism it is possible with the praxis, to return to the origin
of life, to defeat death and life can be prolonged, and be able to
solve the great event of life and death.
BTV: Is it important for your
religion the way in which we die?
M.T.: In Taoism, the best thing
is the praxis; therefore it is possible to decide the course of death.
For example, the best way is to seat and later the spirit leaves the
body. Then the spirit can decide the course of death.
BTV: Can destiny be decided
M.T.: It can with practice. For
example, Cheng Ying Ning the Master of my Master was born in 1880. At
the time of Mao, he became the first President of China Taoist
Association. He said, "With my peaceful life, I will have no problem
living 120 years." But soon, when The Cultural Revolution in China
began, and the country little by little was submersed in chaos, then he
thought that he could not live any longer and wrote his last memoirs.
In 1967 he said, "I can not live any longer, but since I am a follower
of Taoism, if I were to have a short life, no one will think that
Taoist praxis is real." He was then 87, but in China we add one more
year so he was 88. Then he said, "Better will be in two years when I
reach 90 . . . I will leave the world." And told my Master, "I must
live". Then he sat and his spirit left the body. That is a way of dying
BTV: Can the energy of death
influence children? Please explain.
M.T.: In Taoism it is very
important when a person dies, to preserve his body in the best Feng
Shui site. In Taoist Feng Shui we have two equally important parts. A
part of Feng Shui is for the person alive, for example in a house for a
family as the energy of people circulate. That is Yang Feng Shui.
Another part is Yin Feng Shui for the dead person; it is Feng Shui of
the grave. In Taoism when a person dies, to bury his body, we look for
a site with good Feng Shui. If the site has good Feng Shui his body and
his energy can be preserved; this will influence his children and
BTV: What do you think is there
M.T.: After death depends on
each person. We say in Taoism that when a person dies, the spirit no
longer exists. The spirit is Yang when a person is alive and when his
spirit dies changes to Yin. Yin is the soul and can leave the body;
that is when the person dies, but in Taoism with the praxis, the Yang
energy the can be preserved. When the person dies, is when the body no
longer can maintain its spirit, then this spirit must look for another
place. This spirit can leave the body. The difference has to do with
the praxis or lack of it.
BTV: Are Spirit and Soul the
same thing for Taoism?
M.T.: In Taoist culture, when a
person is alive the spirit exists; when a person dies, the Yang energy
no longer exists, only the soul. The spirit is Yang energy and the soul
is Yin energy.
BTV: How would you like to die?
M.T.: In Taoism it is with
praxis--through the praxis; the minimum that can be decided is the date
of death and later the course of death can be decided.
BTV: Would you like to die?
M.T.: I would not like to die.
The best thing for me with the praxis would be a long life, and when
the time comes for me to die, I could seek a better state than that of
BTV: Are you afraid of death?
M.T.: No, not in Taoism, Chuang
Tse said: "When a person is born cries and when dies is necessary to
laugh". Lie Tse said "We work while we are alive; rest while dead".
BTV: Based on Taoism, what would
you like to say to society in general . . . to the Western world, about
death? What would be a message hope?
M.T.: Death is a natural thing.
Don't be afraid--is natural, like day and night they change. In general
for people in Taoism, it is more important when alive, because each
person can decide about their life. But since people normally when die
do not know where they are heading, that is a dark path. The best thing
is life, with the praxis. To take advantage of this life it is the most
important thing and in Taoism praxis is used to serve life. For
example, Tai Chi and Chi Kung, meditation, inner alchemy, everything is
used for the body of each person. Life can be lived healthy, prolonged
and perfected. This is very important and when it is possible to decide
about your own life, it is also possible to decide about death, which
is very important.
BTV: If death could have a face,
how would it be?
M.T.: The face of the death in
China has a myth, it goes like this: The face of death is like that of
a person, with a very long face and very white; with a very long
tong--it is a very ugly face. But that is a myth. Death is a type of
energy, does not exists in a fixed form; when the soul dies, leaves the
body, does not have a fix shape, is in a state, a state of energy. Yin
energy cannot be seen as we see a person--is not the same.